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Former good article nomineeFlying saucer was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 25, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed

Parallel universes

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One possible explanation of flying saucers is based on the theory of parallel universes. As these parallel universes fold and twist in their higher dimension, occasionally they come in contact with one another. Using a two-dimensional analogy, imagine bedsheets hanging side by side on a clothes line, wafting in the breeze. The two-dimensional creatures that inhabit this two-dimensional bedsheet world are constrained by some force that prevents them from moving into the third dimension. When two bedsheets come in contact, this constraining force causes the point of contact to assume a minimal surface two-dimensional object, a circle. The dimension-constraining forces interact, causing an emission of light. The intersection could effect bizarre motion - sudden acceleration, abrupt turns, and suddenly disappear as the two bedsheets separate. The behavior of this "object" would be unexplainable by the laws of physics as understood by the two-dimensional beings.

Moving up to three-dimensional universes, when two come in contact, the region of contact again assumes a minimal surface area object, a sphere or ellipsoid of revolution. The dimension-constraining forces cause the emission of light around its perimeter. Bizarre motions are evidenced by the object of intersection, and it suddenly disappears as the two universes separate their point of conjunction.

This theory raises many questions. Is it possible, for example, for the inhabitants of a universe to force a wrinkle in their universe such that it intentionally comes in contact with a parallel universe? Could they then use this intersection to travel from their universe to the adjoining one? What if the intersection of two universes takes place at a location in one of the universes at the center of a star? There would likely be a sudden infusion of star-interior matter flowing into the other universe.

Some may criticize this hypothesis as attributing one unexplained phenomenon to yet another, the theory of higher dimensionality and parallel universes. However, many scientists believe that physical dimensions higher than three could explain numerous phenomena we observe in our universe.

Um. What the hell? This whole thing stinks of crackpottery -- I can't find a decent reference of any kind for the theory, which suggests that it's 12.253.162.61's own. Moved here for now; please discuss. --Mirv 07:34, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Opposing points of view

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Regarding edits of 3/21/04, prior version almost completely lacked balance. NPOV requires acknowledging at very least the existence of responsible opposing points of view. I had the arbitrary fortune of directly observing three distinct glowing UFO craft in broad daylight for approximately 15 seconds flying in the "impossible" zigzag pattern before flying directly into a cloud and illuminating the vapor as they passed into it. This phenomenon is real and non-imaginary, and deserves at minimum the kind of mention the previous draft denied it. CSICOP does good work much of the time, but it also proceeds, imho, from sometimes dogmatic preassumptions. Timothy Good's book Above Top Secret is the kind of credible research that provides the evidence for those willing to examine it, and the link http://www.ufoevidence.org provides intelligent discussion of some of the most common skeptical objections. The main point is, this edit acknowledges the existence of both perspectives rather than one only. Chris Rodgers 03:39, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Rubbish. Your anecdotal story is useless her - only Reliable Sources are used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.30.135 (talk) 11:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to UFO?

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Is there any convincing reason this article shouldn't be merged with unidentified flying object? - David Gerard 12:23, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It's been over a week and no-one seems to care. So I'm merging - David Gerard 11:35, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Actually, there is: not all saucers are UFOs - IE: those in popular movies, US & Canadian designs - PFS 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Oppose merger per PFS comment above. Flying saucers have a history separate from UFOs, which is detailed in this article; i.e. their long use in science fiction which predates the 1947 discovery of UFOs, and attempts to build flying saucer aircraft. --ChetvornoTALK 18:03, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Flying saucers out of style?

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I think I take issue with the assertion that black triangles have supplanted flying saucers in sightings, and this contention does not seem to be particularly supported by the source provided. While certainly the absolute numbers of flying saucer sightings have declined, and flying saucers than less credibility than they had previously in the "UFO community", it seems to me that the the man-in-the-street's conception of a UFO is probably still a flying saucer (few have probably even heard of "black triangles"), and it's likely that these still form the greater part of sightings. So we need real numbers, and if we don't have real numbers either way, then this unsupported statement should I think be removed.--Pharos 18:22, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, by studying the raw reports available from UFO collecting organizations one would notice that the saucer reports are still present and seem to be statistically more prevalent than other shapes (although the most common UFO reports are just lights)

GA Review

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GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

Overall, this is a rare example of a really good short article on a subject - there can be (and were/are) volumes written on the subject, but this article provides a good, succinct summary of all the important aspects of flying saucers. That said, if editors would like to advance it to the FA level, it would need to be expanded with more in-depth information, which is basically what the difference between GA and FA is all about.

As you can see, however, I still cannot promote this article because of some reservations I have. I hope the article's editorial team will keep active in helping improve the article, and within the week's time I can assign it the "on hold" status, all the issues will be dealt with and I will be able to promote it duly.

  1. While I can only appreciate the good referencing throughout the article, source #1 does not seem particularly reliable or appropriate to me. It appears to be somebody's personal essay on a personal website. It is also used to substantiate potentially contentious statements in the article. I would try to find a better source for those, perhaps removing some.
  2. Reference #2 does not directly state what is being attributed to it in the last part of the lead section. It also doesn't cover the vehicles in "Earth-based examples".
  3. Reference #3 is a perhaps good summary of the subject, but I believe the author himself used some original sources - I think for a keen ufologist, locating them wouldn't be too hard.
  4. Reference #5 - what about baloons?
  5. The first paragraph of "flying source in culture" curiously goes without a single reference. It also contains statements likely to be challenged, so good, reliable references seem necessary.
  6. Reference #8 doesn't even mention Googie style - I believe the author of this article went one step to far in interpreting the meaning of the source.
  7. Mentioning a particular movie and game in the last sentence seems going a bit into less relevant detail to me (unless the sentence would be phrased to highlight those as EXAMPLES, and the sources would discuss the use of the motiff in more recent cultural context, giving those examples.

Looking forward to being able to promote the article, PrinceGloria 13:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PS. One last thing - a pet peeve of mine is placement of navigational templates at the end of article that do not contain a link to the article itself. I think the template still has room for more links, which could broaden its utility.

Whoops, seems like I forgot about the deadline... Not much activity here anyway, so I guess that's it for now. In case anybody would feel like working on the article further, please do mind the review above - once all reservations will be offset, the article should clear GAC with flyijng colours! Happy editing, PrinceGloria 15:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Well the concept of the black triangles theroy could very much be the military's Steath Bomber """"

WikiProject class rating

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:11, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anteriority debate

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There have been some heated debates between skeptics and non-skeptics to acertain wether saucers in science-fiction productions (litterature or comics) were anterior to saucer sighting reports or the opposite. The purpose of this debate was to try and dismiss the saucer sighting as fabricated after science fiction material.
It would be interesting to include some of this debate on the main page, and maybe to try and track some of the earliest examples of both science-fiction saucers and real saucer reports. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.8.17.235 (talk) 19:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is at least one documented sighting of a flying saucer (alleged) from the nineteenth century. This precedes both Arnold's birth and their appearance in mainstream science fiction. I will look this up at some point. Arnold popularised the term, or re-invented it, but it appears he wasn't the originator of it.-213.205.241.73 (talk) 13:41, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Something I noticed

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I noticed that the pic of a UFO on the page used to be captioned An alledged UFO over Passaic, New Jersey. Now it says "An alledged UFO over Passoria, New Jersey". Whats up with that?--Metalhead94 (talk) 02:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Problematic references

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I deleted two new paragraphs about Henri Coanda's flying saucer designs for four reasons: 1) the text was very poorly written, 2) the text was too much about Coanda and not enough about flying saucers in general, 3) parts of the text are wrong, and 4) the references are problematic. Here are the refs:

The allstar.fiu.edu site is copyrighted, yet a quote was taken from that site. The video.google.com link is most likely a copyrighted video. The JPG images do not prove anything. The rexresearch.com link includes a cite to an old version of the Wikipedia article about the Coanda effect, and the text it supposedly supports fails to discuss the relevance the patent on flying saucers.

What's wrong in the text is that Coanda is known to have researched an air-jet-powered snow sled ambulance for the German Army during WWII, not some rumored secret weapon. The 1910 aircraft by Coanda is not connected to flying saucers in any way. What's not said about Coanda in this chunk of text is that he never produced a working flying saucer.

The IP addresses involved in this are 79.11x from Brasov, Romania, and they include of a group of 1024 IP addresses that were blocked en masse on 10 October 2010 for edit warring on Coanda-related articles. The two-month block expired 10 December and the IP returned injecting the same material. These references, especially the awful JPG image URLs, have been the subject of much edit warring at the article about Henri Coandă since July 2010: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] and many more. Binksternet (talk) 19:14, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the copyright violations immediately. The rest needs to go, too. Binksternet (talk) 20:50, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • oh boy, not you again. I understand you are susppended from time to time, because your permanently weird and though head implications in several articles across wikipedia. Yet you still done them, un dettered. The quote is a quote of Coanda, is not copyrighted, i can post it from lots of romanian sources, but i chose to point out an english language too. If you think that is a copyright problems, why dont you ask the author of that article about it? It is clearly pointed out that you can take anything from there, with permission. Same for the Google video, which is clearly not a problem. Rest of your concerns is just spam, part of your weird and silly camapign against Henri Coanda. Get a life, get a girlfriend, it will make you some good, trust me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.116.248.243 (talk) 09:19, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In an effort to resolve this edit war, I have shortened and rewritten the piece into English. I haven't looked at the verifiablitiy or accuracy of the links, which may need further clarification. It is probably more appropriate to keep the other information in the Henri Coanda article. Regards Lynbarn (talk) 12:33, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'd edited the article based upon what the sources do say. They don't support the first patent on a flying saucer.GraemeLeggett (talk) 12:45, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Allstar FIU article says at the top of it: "Please let me remind all of you--this material is copyrighted." What can be copyrighted is any translation into English of a Romanian or French source. The quote from Coanda speaking at a Romanian Academy symposium is such a quote, the English translation possibly copyrighted. I am removing that quote until such a time as its copyright status is clearly demonstrated to be one of permissible use. Binksternet (talk) 15:15, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Australian PDF from New Fluid Technology called "Henri Coanda: The Facts" [11] is unverifiable as a reference because it has no author. Its photographs are interesting but it has problems with inaccuracy in its text, for instance, the 1911 "stamp" is said to be designed by Coanda but it is clearly a reworking of the 1910 brochure cover art by Charles Vernau of Paris; and the PDF asserts that the 1910 aircraft is "unquestionably the worlds first jet propelled airplane" when major questions have been raised about that, by notable mainstream historians. I assume the PDF author to be Terry Day, Technical Director of New Fluid Technology in Queensland, but this is not made clear. Anyway, this PDF is one I feel can be used as an external link or as a source for photographic evidence, but one in which the text analysis is unverifiable. Binksternet (talk) 15:15, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Catchword

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It seems to me that one might find a more earnest expression for the subject of the article. Flying saucer is clearly humorous, but in the article, there is not referred to this fact in the section of the lead that deals with the origin of the term.

Nevertheless, there is said:

"Both the terms flying saucer and flying disc were used commonly and interchangeably in the media until the early 1950s."

Would it, therefore, not be useful to move the article to Flying disc? For me, this catchword would appear much more encyclopedic. --Hans Dunkelberg (talk) 13:08, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I only now realize that Flying disc is already used for something absolutely different. But, nevertheless: it does not make a good impression to have an article with an obviously humorous catchword, but without any remark on the fact that, and in how far, the catchword is a humorous one. --Hans Dunkelberg (talk) 13:20, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Translation in broken English

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Somebody who knows both languages perfectly should improve the English translation of text (1) in (2).

This is what Coanda said, speaking in Romanian:

(1)„Avioanele pe care le avem astăzi nu sunt decât perfecţionarea avioanelor de jucărie pe care le fac copiii din hârtie. Părerea mea este că ar trebui să găsim o maşină de zbor complet diferită, bazată pe alte principii ale zborului. Avionul viitorului va decola vertical, va zbura ca oricare altul şi va ateriza tot vertical. Ideea mi-a venit de la puterea uriasa a cicloanelor”.

Broken English translation: "At a Symposionum organized by the Romanian Academy in 1967 Coanda said:

(2)"These airplanes we have today are no more than a perfection of a toy made of paper children use to play with. My opinion is we should search for a completely different flying machine, based on other flying principles. I consider the aircraft of the future, that which will take off vertically, fly as usual and land vertically. This flying machine should have no parts in movement. The idea came from the huge power of the cyclons" [sic][13]". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.83.160.23 (talk) 15:31, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

N.F.O.

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I propose that every reference to "unidentified flying object" or "UFO" be changed to Nazi flying object and NFO. There is no way a flying "object" can be considered unidentified if they are in fact Nazi. -- bigrealjay482 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.118.157 (talk) 02:08, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

DON'T MERGE DON'T MERGE because flying saucers are also NASA spacecraft as of now

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[http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/science/20140808/nasas-flying-saucer-mars-test-called-success-despite-torn-chute]

[https://www.google.com/search?q=saucer+test+success]

User:Pedant 76.90.171.224 (talk) 00:49, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary apostrophe

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  This article, in its first paragraph, says that since 1952, the term "flying saucers" has been supplanted by the United States Air Force term "unidentified flying objects or UFO's" (sic). I am inclined to think that the apostrophe is not needed here. Vorbee (talk) 15:54, 28 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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History

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The 1978 radio drama CBS Mystery Theater ~ A Message from Space 790 begins, "The term 'flying saucer' was first used by a Texas farmer, who saw one over his ranch in 1878. That's right, 100 years ago. For this information, I'm indebted to Arthur Shuttlewood, one of the foremost authorities in the world on UFO's." Anything to this? 50.53.52.21 (talk) 07:44, 22 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

“NAZI-Disc”

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I admit that most of the texts mentioning Flying Saucer like vehicles built by Nazi-engineers during WWII in Germany ( ... yeah. ) are of US-American origin and thus more local culture at yours. But those stories merit to be included, here. If you are closer to the “scene”, maybe you also feel where they fit in.

I came here, precisely from one of those “Web-pages” and am still too overwhelmed to evaluate anything. 109.190.55.91 (talk) 07:19, 13 November 2021 (UTC) (Germany/France)[reply]

Darn. I found the Nazi-UFO in this Wikipedia edition. Never mind.109.190.55.91 (talk) 07:26, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OR

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Much of this article likely needs to be written from sources. I started editing when I noticed some issues in the lead. There's bits of it throughout the article though. Rjjiii (talk) 20:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Feoffer: you recently added content and reorganized some sections. Are you planning to do more? And do you have plans/ideas for the organization or scope of the article? Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 23:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please take the lead, I was just trying to help out since you mentioned the article had some problems. I probably copied WAY too much from the Kenneth Arnold incident page and it can be pared down a lot -- feel free to remove anything I added as you see fit, it's messy article and I don't know what its final form should look like. I could pretty easily make Flying Saucers in Popular Culture far more comprehensive, but that material would probably best belong in a subarticle. As a reader, I would want to know how the "disc with bubble" became "the" image of a flying saucer. We're still just scratching the surface of what a big deal the "flying saucer" was in 50s culture -- it wasn't just a sci-fi thing, it was all over the place.
Just first thoughts. How best could I help here? I don't know if we need to rehash the conspiracies as much it should. Feoffer (talk) 07:25, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Feoffer: thanks for the work you put in and your feedback. I had not really thought too much about what the "final form should look like" before I asked above. I was more focused existing problematic content.
In general, the article should probably have a narrow scope to prevent overlap with and forking from Unidentified flying object. In many of the other language wikipedias, this article is a redirect to UFO. For example, "platillo volador" on es-wiki is a redirect to es:Ovni (UFO).[12] Other reference sources treat UFO as the primary topic. Brittanica rolls "flying saucers" into their UFO article.[13] Encyclopedia.com does a definition and link to "UFO".[14] The Columbia Encyclopedia "flying saucer" entry gives a link to "UFO".[15] Enciclonet has a UFO/OVNI article, but nothing for flying saucers.[16][17] I think anything that can be covered at Unidentified flying object, UFOs in fiction, UFO religion, or UFO conspiracy theories should be covered primarily there, leaving this article as a UFO subarticle.
I am thinking sections of this article could be:
  1. History
    1. Precursors
    2. 1947 (not sure on title for section)
    3. 1950s into 1960s (not sure on title, but flying saucer peak)[18]
    4. Later (not sure on title)
  2. Culture
    1. idk on sub-sections?
  3. Characteristics
    1. idk on sub-sections?
The "Explanations" section is fine for now, but as the other sections are worked out, those bits should either be worked in, ported over to Unidentified flying object, or cut out. Let me know what you think, Rjjiii (talk) 08:41, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That matches with my thinking -- we don't need to fully rehash the whole "UFOs are alien spaceships" thing when it's adequately covered and debunked elsewhere. I don't think the project currently has a place that conveys what a big deal "Saucer Culture" was in the 1950s. I'd really like to find a RS connecting, say, Passiac saucer to, say, George Jetson's domed flying saucer car. Feoffer (talk) 10:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Gotcha, I'm going to reorganize the sections. I'll condense the history, add Ray Palmer into the history section briefly, and write characteristics from sources. If you have sources/ideas for pop culture stuff, I can work around that. Rjjiii (talk) 04:06, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Feoffer: I have perhaps an odd question. I feel good about the precursors and 1947 sections of history. In the final section, I want to briefly touch on some of the major beats of the flying saucer concept without duplicating UFO. Do you know off-hand what are some of the major flying saucer articles on Wikipedia, so that this higher level article can link down into them? Especially ones that are kind of saucer-specific and might not end up in the main UFO article. I am thinking of things like Maury Island incident, George Adamski, Donald Keyhoe, and Fred Crisman. Rjjiii (talk) 23:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll think more on this , but off the top of my head brainstrorming: Passaic UFO photographs, Meade Layne, Robert Dione,Truman Bethurum, James W. Moseley, World Contact Day, Frank Scully, Richard Sharpe Shaver, Mariana UFO incident, Gray Barker, UFO (1956 film), Morris K. Jessup, Erich von Däniken, Elijah Muhammad, George Hunt Williamson, Albert K. Bender, Civilian Saucer Intelligence,Fourth International Posadist, George Van Tassel,Leonard H. Stringfield,Aetherius Society,Ashtar (extraterrestrial being). And then, in pop culture: The Thing from Another World, The Flying Saucer (song), Flying Saucer Daffy, The Bamboo Saucer,Captain Video and His Video Rangers,John M. Schealer,Duck Dodgers in the 24½th Century Feoffer (talk) 11:30, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've been looking for a source to capture what a "big deal" flying saucers were in the 50s. My understanding is that there was a whole fad of naming things after flying saucers -- ice cream, toys, sandwiches, and so forth. Lots of little blog posts and such about this sort of thing, but still digging for a really good comprehensive source. Feoffer (talk) 15:06, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pop culture sources

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This is the area that I know the least about and so am avoiding as long as possible. Stacking some sources here:

  • "Kottmeyer-2017" in article for films and serials
  • Peebles, Curtis (1994). Watch the Skies!: A Chronicle of the Flying Saucer Myth. Washington, DC: The Smithsonian Institution. ISBN 1-56098-343-4.
  • Sharples, John (2 January 2016). "Sky and Stardust: The Flying Saucer in American Popular Culture, 1947–1957". Cultural and Social History. 13 (1): 81–98. doi:10.1080/14780038.2015.1095447.
  • Patton, Phill. "Modern Myth 'Men In Black' Movie Offers New Twist On Flying-Saucer Folklore". The Spokesman-Review.
  • Horton, Adrian (25 June 2021). "How pop culture has shaped our understanding of aliens". The Guardian.
  • Taylor, Bron, ed. (2010). The Encyclopedia Of Religion And Nature. Continuum. ISBN 9780199754670 – via Oxford Reference.
  • Lambie, Ryan (22 April 2019). "Super Mario Land: The Brilliance of an Underrated Classic". Den of Geek.
  • Magazine, Smithsonian; Blakemore, Erin. "These UFO-Like Buildings Are a Space-Age Tourist's Dream". Smithsonian Magazine.

Rjjiii (talk) 17:49, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding some more to revisit:
Rjjiii (talk) 03:14, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Foo fighters

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I think it is worth mentioning foo fighters, but I see that this edit by Rjjiii removes the mention. I'm tempted to bring back that sentence (though not revert the whole edit). Am I missing something? Yaris678 (talk) 16:17, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Yaris678 from memory, the cited source was not clearly talking about Foo Fighters as flying saucers. Maybe they are in scope though; go ahead and do a mention. If you check Peebles (1994) cited in the article, I am pretty sure he does write about in context as flying saucer reports. From memory he says they were reported as axis aircraft, later attributed to something else, and in the 50s connected to flying saucers. I believe Peebles specifically mentions Keyhoe talking about Foo Fighters, Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 18:50, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Flying saucer/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Rjjiii (talk · contribs) 19:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 04:25, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]


GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it well written?
    A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
    B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
    Lead section looks good.
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
    A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
    B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
    C. It contains no original research:
    D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
    B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
  4. Is it neutral?
    It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
  5. Is it stable?
    It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
    Stable.
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    GTG.
    B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
    Could go shorter on the captions per recommendations below.
    GTG.
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

Feedback

[edit]

Lead

[edit]

 Done

  • Not bad, but I did experience a few speed bumps:
  • The term has gradually been supplanted by the more general military terms unidentified flying object (UFO) and unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP).
  • Aim for active voice (object, verb, subject): "General military terms such as unidentified flying object (UFO) and unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP) have gradually replaced the term over time." Or something like that.
  • Do we really need three links in a row? That's WP:SOB territory, IMO. Any chance you can spread these links out in the paragraph? You probably don't need to link to science fiction, so maybe that would solve the problem?
  • Flying saucers have been described as silent or deafening, with lights of every color, flying alone or in formation, and twenty to thousands of feet in diameter.
  • Try for active voice and consider metric conversions however you think it should be done (if needed): "Witnesses describe flying saucers as silent or deafening, with lights of every color, flying alone or in formation, and ranging in size from twenty to thousands of feet (6 to 1,000 meters) in diameter."
  • The majority of reported saucers have been identified with known phenomena including astronomical objects like Venus, airborne objects like balloons, and optical phenomena like sun dogs.
  • Try something along the lines of: "Experts have identified most reported saucers as known phenomena, including astronomical objects like Venus, airborne objects like balloons, and optical phenomena like sun dogs."

History

[edit]
Precursors
  • When you cite a source only once, but use it as a combo (for example,[1][2][3]), it helps to bundle them to increase readability. Since there are many different ways to do this, you can review Help:Citation merging. If you search that page for "Bullet format", you'll find the style I generally use, but there are many different variations available depending on how you use your specific citations.
    • In the case of the "Many aspects ..." paragraph, I broke the citations up and placed them at the end of sentences. I think that's also more clear. In a few places, I did bundle related citations (list of definitions, emoji citations, and so on), and now I think I either have one or two footnotes throughout the article currently. If there are any pairs of citations that are both used only once and related, feel free to point those out and I'll bundle them as well, Rjjiii (talk) 02:58, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Before the term "flying saucer" was coined, fantasy artwork in pulp magazines depicted flying discs. Skeptical physicist Milton Rothman noted the appearance of "flying saucers" in the fantasy artwork of 1930s pulp science fiction magazines, by artists like Frank R. Paul. One of Paul's earliest depictions of a "flying saucer" appeared on the cover of the November 1929 issue of Hugo Gernsback's pulp science fiction magazine Science Wonder Stories.
  • I think you're using flying saucer in quotes here for a specific, academic reason here, but I wonder if it is truly needed as I found it distracting. Can we bypass this rule? For example, you could just say "Before the flying saucer was coined as a term" and "Milton Rothman noted the appearance of so-called flying saucers" and "One of Paul's earliest depictions of a flying saucer". Just wondering if you can think of a way to avoid quotes here as it slowed me down as the reader. No biggie if you want to keep it but I dislike anything that makes me pause. Viriditas (talk) 00:09, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Origins
  • You've got this linked at least three times in this section. Once in the see also hatnote, twice in the series template of the same name, and a third time in the body ("wave of hundreds of flying saucer reports"). Not sure what you want to do here, but maybe cut the "see also" at the top?
Alternately, you could keep the see also and lose the other link in the body. I see this style in other sections as well.
Removed the see also, and left it in the body text. The navigation template is invisible in mobile, so I don't want to leave that as the only link, Rjjiii (talk) 03:16, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Newspapers had reported hoaxes by those looking to profit from the saucers and the Roswell incident, which was quickly retracted as balloon debris.
  • Try something like "Newspapers reported hoaxes by people trying to profit from the saucers and the Roswell incident, which was quickly retracted as balloon debris." Perhaps you could even improve that.
  • In the July 7, 1947 Twin Falls saucer hoax, a widely reported crashed disc from Twin Falls, Idaho, was found to have been created by four teenagers using parts from a jukebox.
  • "In the widely reported July 7, 1947, Twin Falls saucer hoax, four teenagers in Idaho fabricated a crashed disc using parts from a jukebox."
  • In the following years, other national governments would follow suit
"In the following years, other national governments followed suit."
Went with "Other national governments followed suit." Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Description

[edit]
Identification
  • Investigations by the British government in the 1950s found the vast majority of reports to be misidentifications or hoaxes.
  • Some causes of saucer sightings include Venus, ice crystals, balloons, and airborne trash.
  • The US Government and General Mills launched thousands of top-secret Skyhook spy balloon during the 1950s.
  • These massive balloons floated at high altitudes, making it difficult to judge their speed, and were widely reported as flying saucers.
  • "Because they floated at high altitude, these massive balloons were widely reported as flying saucers, making it difficult to judge their speed."
    • Went with "Because they floated at high altitude, it was difficult to judge the speed of the massive balloons, and they were widely reported as flying saucers." Hopefully this is more clear. Difficulty judging the speed is part of why they were misidentified both above the United States and above the Soviet Union. Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Beginning in the mid-1950s, psychologists began to study why people believed in flying saucers if the evidence was so limited.
  • You use begin twice here. Play around with it: "Beginning in the mid-1950s, psychologists investigated why people believed in flying saucers despite the lack of evidence." Or whatever you prefer.
  • French psychiatrist Georges Heuyer considered the movement to be a kind of global folie à deux, or shared delusion, used to navigate anxieties.
  • "French psychiatrist Georges Heuyer viewed the phenomenon as a kind of global folie à deux, or shared delusion, that people used to navigate anxieties." Did you mean cope instead of navigate?
    • Went with "French psychiatrist Georges Heuyer viewed the phenomenon as a kind of global folie à deux, or shared delusion, triggered by fear of a possible nuclear holocaust." but open to revising that again. Cope isn't quite the idea that Heuyer and the others are getting at in the cited source. More so that these global anxieties and fears about the potential end of the world made people susceptible to falling into delusions. Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the 1970s, French UFO researcher Michel Monnerie compared reports that were later identified with reports that remained unidentified.
  • This is probably fine, but you can try to eliminate the repetition if you want: "In the 1970s, French UFO researcher Michel Monnerie compared reports that were later identified with those that remained unexplained."
  • This led him to develop the thesis
Reported sightings
  • Some witnesses reported silent objects; others reported a roar or thunderclap.
  • Some variation, perhaps? "Some witnesses reported the objects as silent, while others described hearing a roar or thunderclap."
  • Sightings were most often during the night around sunset or sunrise
  • "Sightings typically took place at night, around sunset or sunrise."
  • If the saucer's crew was described by the witness, they were usually extraterrestrial.
  • That sounds strange to my ear. How about "When witnesses described the saucer's crew, they usually regarded them as extraterrestrial." Or some variation along that theme?
  • Flying saucers have been consistently described and depicted as ahead of contemporary technology.
  • "Witnesses consistently describe and depict flying saucers as as ahead of contemporary technology."
  • The majority of 1947 reports emphasized speed. This fell to 41 percent in 1971, and 22 percent in 1986.
  • You discussed speed in the previous sentence. I get what you are trying to do and why you worded it this way, but it might be more effective to combine the two together. Then you get: "The 1947 sightings—occurring months before Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier—emphasized the "incredible speed" of flying saucers. While most 1947 reports focused on speed, this fell to 41 percent in 1971 and 22 percent in 1986." I prefer this style.
  • In the 1950s, hovering flying saucers were associated with contactees and hoaxes; by 1986 almost half of reported UFOs were claimed to hover slowly or motionlessly.
  • "In the 1950s, hovering flying saucers were associated with contactees and hoaxes. By 1986, almost half of reported UFOs were said to hover slowly or remain motionless."
Fictional portrayals
  • Flying saucers in popular media underwent a similar change in movement.
  • It's the start of a new sentence in a new subsection, but it sounds like you are continuing from the previous one without much transition. Not sure how you want to do it, but I would start by changing it to "In popular media, flying saucers underwent a similar change in motion."
[edit]
The Annunciation, with Saint Emidius
  • Fictional flying saucers reflect concerns around atomic warfare, the Cold War, loss of bodily integrity, xenophobia, government secrecy, and whether humanity is alone in the universe.
  • You used "reflect" in the previous sentence, so mix it up a bit. Also, it might help to separate concerns from questions: "Fictional flying saucers represent concerns about atomic warfare, the Cold War, loss of bodily integrity, xenophobia, government secrecy, and the question of whether humanity is alone in the universe."
  • Popular media has been influenced by witnesses and has increased interest in flying saucers.
  • I get what you are trying to say, but I think it would help to drill down a bit. "Reports from witnesses have influenced popular media and led to greater interest in flying saucers."
  • For Earth vs. the Flying Saucers, producer Charles H. Schneer licensed Donald Keyhoe's UFO books to as the basis for the screenplay, and special effects artist Ray Harryhausen met with contactees such as George Adamski in the desert to discuss the film's saucer design.
  • "For the film Earth vs. the Flying Saucers, producer Charles H. Schneer adapted Donald Keyhoe's UFO books for the screenplay, while special effects artist Ray Harryhausen consulted with contactee George Adamski about the saucer design."
  • A disc, often domed or shining down a ray of light, has become visual shorthand for aliens
  • "Shining down" sounds odd to me. You've got a lot of options such as emitting or projecting. "A disc, often domed or projecting a beam of light, has become visual shorthand for aliens."
  • It has been used in modern times to signify pop culture aliens.
  • This sentence seems lonely all by itself. Can it be merged into the previous sentence? Or does it just say the same thing twice?
  • Present day ufologists have misinterpreted the aerial disc motif in older art, created when the shape had different connotations.
  • Not sure what you are trying to say here. Can you be specific? Without looking at the source, my guess is that you are referring to the ufologists who engage in pseudoscientific claims of past alien contact (ancient astronauts) by pointing to disc motifs in art and saying it refers to ancient aliens. Perhaps you can explain a bit more for those not familiar with this.
Literature
  • There were several precursors to the modern flying saucers in science fiction literature, such as The Shaver Mystery.
  • You don't need the article "the" here. "Several precursors to modern flying saucers appeared in science fiction literature, including The Shaver Mystery."
  • Aliens and flying discs were common in the 1950s science fiction comics that flourished after the Golden Age of Comic Books.
  • Remove the? "Aliens and flying discs were common in 1950s science fiction comics that flourished after the Golden Age of Comic Books."
  • The comic book anthology UFO Flying Saucers, launched in the 1960s, published illustrations of supposedly real sightings.
  • "Launched in the 1960s, the comic book anthology UFO Flying Saucers featured illustrations of supposedly real sightings."
  • Advertisements in the 1950s and 1960s referenced flying saucers as purported alien spacecraft and reflected the diversity of attitudes towards their plausibility.
  • "Advertisements in the 1950s and 1960s portrayed flying saucers as purported alien spacecraft, reflecting a diversity of attitudes toward their plausibility."
  • The major attitudes towards UFOs invoked in print advertisements were the potential for advanced technology, awe towards their potential pilots, and skepticism about hoaxes.
  • Can you rewrite this one? It's a little hurky-jerky. Not sure how to do it, but I will provide one example. Perhaps you can find a better way: "The key beliefs toward UFOs in print advertisements include the potential for advanced technology, awe towards their potential pilots, and skepticism about hoaxes." Removed attitudes as duplication from the previous sentence.
  • Much of the former pulp reader base shifted their attention to the growing medium of television during the 1950s.
  • This is probably fine, but there's an opportunity to have fun with it: "As the 1950s progressed, former pulp readers turned their attention to the growing medium of television."
Film and television

 Doing...

  • MOS:REPEATLINK: "Link a term at most once per major section, at first occurrence. Do not re-link in other sections if not contextually important there". You've got duplicate links here from Earth vs. the Flying Saucers (linked in previous subsection) and B movie, which is linked twice in this subsection. Go ahead and run User:Evad37/duplinks-alt to see the duplicate links highlighted.
Architecture

 Doing...

Broader pop culture

 Doing...

References

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 Doing...

Images

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 Done

  • @Rjjiii: This is just a general question, and has no bearing on the review, but I found the lead image somewhat lacking in terms of interest. In terms of steelmanning, the UFO enthusiast community appears to believe that Sergio Loaiza's 1971 photo is the best image that they have. I've heard the cogent counterarguments that refute it (Mick West? I can't remember), but if I'm reading Commons:Government works (Costa Rica) correctly, it appears that their "best" image is now in the public domain (taken in 1971 by National Geography Department (IGN) of the National Registry of Costa Rica, which is only copyrighted for 50 years). Something to consider uploading and using? Viriditas (talk) 04:54, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Purported flying saucer photographs published in a 1952 New Jersey newspaper
    @Viriditas I've uploaded the high-resolution original of Loaiza's aerial photo to the commons and used a cropped and auto-leveled version for the top image here. Regarding the Passaic photo, I checked out the newspapers since the license on the commons implies that it was published without a notice, and it was but the newspaper version is lower quality. (Uploaded and floated on this section.) I'm not sure where the CIA version is from; it looks like a scan from a book or office report. Rjjiii (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Nice work. Viriditas (talk) 21:38, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Supposed UFO, Passaic, New Jersey.jpg Green tickY
  • I think you're supposed to have a comma after New Jersey in the caption
  • I added an archival link to the image, which was published on the CIA website in 2007
  • The licensing and attribution is a bit strange. Those Getty images have non-commercial use attached to them, particularly when used by other sources. It is currently licensed as {{PD-US-no notice}}, however, my understanding is that Stock had the photo published by newspapers immediately after taking it, which means he holds the copyright, however, according to lore, the government took ownership of the images, in which case their appearance on the CIA site in 2007 would mean they were in the public domain. I will accept this photo as it is currently licensed, but the chain of custody is unusual.
  • The caption says A "flying saucer" on a 1929 issue of Science Wonder Stories. That reads funny to me. Shouldn't it read: "A "flying saucer" on the cover of a 1929 issue of Science Wonder Stories?
  • I love long captions just like you do, but the community has repeatedly warned me against using them. I think you can easily shorten this to something like: "Scientist Walther Riedel said Adamski faked this 1952 UFO photo (top) using GE light bulbs for landing struts. Adamski is believed to have also used a 1930s gas lantern. (bottom)" Or something along those lines.
  • This is a good image. We get a lot of these sun dogs in Hawaii and I've captured many of them with my camera. In one shot, the digital sensor produced an artifact due to the brightness of the sunlight, and turned the sun dog blue, making it look like a flying, ice blue orb! I've been meaning to upload it but just never got around to it. I've also seen similar, sun dog-like images produced when the full moon appears behind clouds. One time, and I seriously wish I had my camera with me when it happened, the moonlight produced these "moon dogs" (I don't know what else to call them) of tiny orbs of light reflecting within a densely packed cloud. I joked at the time that it looked like a fleet of UFOs.
  • I think the use of this image is fine, but in general, best practice is to mention the image if possible in the text. I see that you mention it farther down, but one thing that is interesting about this film is that it is loosely based on the book by Donald Keyhoe titled Flying Saucers from Outer Space (1953). I read the book and wasn't that impressed. It felt like a screenplay! Perhaps Kehoe and his book could be mentioned in the "Film and television" section where you discuss the film? If memory serves, Kehoe's book was also used recently to inform the show Project Blue Book (TV series) (2019), which is actually quite good, if you haven't seen it.
    • I have instead tried to work a mention of it into that section's intro as an example. Also, Project Blue Book was fun but I always get hung up trying to watch shows that do nonfiction but with fictional elements. I had the same hangup with Strange Angel about Jack Parsons, Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 23:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's possible to shorten this caption: "A flying saucer leaves its mothership in Plan 9 from Outer Space (1957)". You don't need to specify small and larger as its implied by "mothership".
  • Great image, and I totally get that the Theme Building looks like a saucer when seen from below, however the source says only that it looks like a "landing spaceship". Would be nice to get further clarification on this. I think it's self-evident when you compare it to the sources for the Space Needle that these architectural works are intended to reflect that of a flying saucer, but I just wonder if we can get another source on this that goes beyond "landing spaceship", which I think is synonymous with "flying saucer", but others might nitpick on that. Personally, I don't think you should do anything, but it is something to consider. For example, Winter 2009, p. 77 specifies it was intended to resemble a "flying saucer". You could use that. There are several others as well.
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